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HomeCooker said in July 18th, 2008 at 2:33 am

Thanks for the podcasts. Very interesting.

Some questions about stock.

I make 5 quarts of chicken stock every few weeks and freeze it in the big freezer downstairs in a combination of 1 and 2 cup plastic containers so I can just take out the quantity I need to use at the time.

I grew up in a Jewish household, so I follow the chicken stock methodology my mother taught me which is a bit different than classic French technique. The main difference in how my mother taught me is that in addition to the mirepoix there are some root vegetables, in particular parsnip and some potato.

Questions:

1) The stock gets cloudy, likely because of the potato. Also, your podcast said not to let it come to a rolling boil, and I think I don’t control the temperature well enough and it does boil. Is there a way to clarify stock that has become cloudy? I don’t understand how the egg white method works. Can you explain this might work?

2) Again from the Jewish tradition, my grandmother always swore that chicken feet were essential to a good chicken stock. I can get them at the Chinese grocery without much difficulty. Do you have thoughts on chicken feet in stock? My grandmother always said that the feet are especially dirty so she would cover them in water, bring it to a boil, pour the water off, re-cover it with cold water then start again. Do you think this is necessary for sanitation purposes? I’m not sure such a short boil would make much of a difference anyhow, and of course the entire stock is going to simmer for hours.

3) I learned from my mother and grandmother that a good stock should be gelatinous when cooled in the fridge, and that it was important to have the right balance of bones to meat to achieve this. Any thoughts?

3) Let’s cross the globe to Viet Nam. Again, not French cooking although Viet Nam did develop a strong French tradition during the occupation years. I LOVE pho soup. Your comments about skipping beef stock and moving straight on to veal stock were interesting because pho soup is traditionally based on beef stock.

I got a well known Viet Namese cookbook out of the library and I made a pho from scratch. I dutifully went to the butcher shop and bought six pounds of beef bones. I simmered them for 6 hours, which is what the recipe asked for together with whatever other ingredients were specified.

The details of the flavourings are less important than the fact that my pho stock SUCKED. I put a lot of time and effort into it, not to mention a trip downtown to the real market to get the right kind of beef bones. The stock was watery and insipid and had none of that glorious texture and depth that I get with my tried and true chicken stock.

What did I do wrong? Was it the type of bones? Was it that I didn’t boil them long enough? The recipe called for 6 hours, which seemed like an awfully long time to me given that I generally do chicken stock in about 3 hours. But according to your podcast, maybe that’s not long enough. Was that my problem? Should I have used veal bones? ANy tips on making a good pho stock?

4) If you have to boil something for 12 hours, that’s quite difficult for the home cook unless you are willing to leave the pot on the stove unsupervised. Do you leave the stock pot on overnight or otherwise do you leave the stove on when you’re not in the kitchen to achieve the simmering times? Or is this simply more achievable because a restaurant kitchen is probably staffed 16 hours a day so it’s not a fire safety risk because the stove will never be truly unattended?

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Jacob said in July 23rd, 2008 at 4:42 pm

HomeCooker,

1) Most of your cloudiness is coming from the addition of starchy vegetables and allowing your stock to boil which causes the fat to be emulsified back into the stock. The clarification process of using an egg and protein raft will clarify your stock to some extent, but really it’s more trouble than its worth. It sounds like your stock has great flavor, it just my not have the best visual appeal. I would use the stock that you have right now, and then next time you make it, just don’t add starchy vegetables and don’t allow the stock to boil; and remember, skim, skim, skim.

2) Your grandmother was right. Chicken feet as well as necks go great in chicken stock because they both contain a high amount of collagen and connective tissue which is what gives a good stock flavor and body. The dissolved collagen is what makes a good stock “gel.” As for par boiling or “blanching off” the feet beforehand, some people think that its necessary to remove some of the “barnyard” taste that hooves, trotters and feet are commonly associated with. Whether or not to par cook the feet before the stock making processes is a personal preference.

3) The gelatinous nature of a stock comes from the collagen found mainly in the bones used, but can also be found in certain portions of the flesh (usually around the areas of the animal that are the most active). For me personally, I’ll always use exclusively bones for my stock since it will always be used as my base. From there I might go back and “reinforce” the flavor by adding meat trimmings and more roasted vegetables or fresh herbs to arrive at my finished soup or sauce. A stock made only with meat and no bones is a broth.

4) I don’t claim to be an expert on Vietnamese food but I do love to eat it and I have a couple of friends who have cooked it in a professional context. My best guess is that the book was using the terms “beef” and “veal” stock interchangeably. The reason why you should always use veal knuckle bones is because they contain more collagen than beef bones. This is why your stock was watery and didn’t have any body to it. Both the flavor and body of your stock comes from collagen, so using beef bones almost defeats the purpose of making the stock in the first place. Next time, I would suggest making veal stock using knuckle bones, follow the guidlines in FCS Episode 2, and simmer your bones for at least 8 hours. I would then strain off the bones and reduce the stock by at least 1/4 and maybe as much as 1/2.

5) Even in the restaurant kitchen we will leave things simmering on the stove overnight, and I also do this when making stock at home. Although I should probably through in a legal disclaimer telling you to not leave you stove unsupervised, I trust that you will make your own decisions based on your own comfort levels. When simmering a stock overnight, it is on such a low flame that as long as your kitchen is nice and clean and there is nothing around the flame, you shouldn’t have any problems.

By the way, even though I didn’t recommend using an eggshell raft in question one for clarifying your stocks, I will be doing a post on clarified stocks (consumes) in the near future. Hope this helped.

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