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[Jacob Burton]

@ Dub,

RIP Bubba, keep trying, the earliest phase is the hardest.

@Chess4Him,

Sorry to hear about Jodie. Here's a couple of things to take into consideration for Jodie 2.0. I'm really against starting a starter with warm water because it encourages harmful strains of bacteria to come and join the party (hence the mold marks). Always start with cold water, and hopefully your natural yeast and friendly neighborhood lactobacillus will come and take over before the bullies get a foot hold.

I've read about not storing you sourdough in a metal bowl, but I haven't seen any science as to the exact reason why. I always store my sourdough in a large, cylindrical, plastic container. I have used a metal bowl to store my sourdough for a 24hr period without any problems, but never long term.

Like I told Dub, the hardest part is getting through the earliest stages (the first couple of weeks); after that your starter should be strong enough to weather the storm.

Also, once you see any sort of life in your starter, theoretically, there's enough yeast to bake bread, the only question is, how long do you ferment it for. Once your starter becomes more active, its just more predictable.

There's a fine line between letting your starter leaven your bread long enough to actually take advantage of the yeast as a leavening agent, and letting it go too long, which will leave you with a slack, batter like bread dough. So with a little time and experience, it is possible to leaven your bread with a 24 hr starter (if there is any yeast), but its a feel thing that is really hard to relate in an audio podcast. That's why I gave a standard time range, and recommend feeding your starter a couple of times before baking with it, so you can follow along at home with the recipe that I use, which I'll be releasing in Episode 20.

Hope this helped.

[dub]

My understanding is that the porous surface of metal is good at holding onto bacteria, and can be difficult to sterilize. Glass or plastic is much better for something like a sourdough starter that will be left on the counter, and will be in contact with the bowl for an extended period of time.

I didn't follow the instructions properly  and used hot water for the first feeding of Bubba... that's when things started to go wrong, so it's probably totally my fault. It's a shame too, because he was starting to have that wonderful yeasty/sour smell of a good sourdough.

[Homecook]

The Saga continues...

I removed 1/2 of my starter to make a sponge on Friday, around 11:30AM. I fed the starter and the sponge regular AP flour as I was out of BF. I left the sponge on the counter and around 6:30PM it looked ready (as far as I can tell -- I'm still trying to figure this out). 

The problem was I didn't have BF to mix up a bread dough. So I left it wait. Saturday morning the sponge looked tired and inactive. Lots of hooch on top and no bubbling.  So I poured off the hooch and gave it 1 package of Red Star Active Dry yeast and went to the store to fetch some bread flour.

When I returned, the sponge looked active and bubbling, so I mixed up a dough. This one was a bit different from my last try. I used:

* 1 1/2 cups of the sponge
* 2/3 warm water
* 2 tsp salt
* 4 cups bread flour
* 1 tsp Active Dry Yeast

I mixed this all in my KA mixer, and let the mixer continue to knead the dough (with the hook) until the ball was a bit shiny. I let the dough rise in the KA mixer bowl for approximately 6 hours. In this time the dough tripled in size so I was hopeful I was actually going to get some edible bread.

After 6 hours of proofing the dough, I made two loafs on a nonstick bread pan coated with a bit of corn meal. I let the loaves proof about 4 hours, and they did rise some, but didn't double in size.  I was afraid that if I tried to slash the loafs, they would collapse.  And I didn't try to transfer them to a pizza stone for the same reason.

At this point an argument ensued about what Sourdough bread was supposed to look like. My wife and guests insist that sourdough breads are round, not shaped like a french loaf.  The thing is, the dough was so loose it wouldn't hold a baguette shape well.  I'm starting to think that maybe a round shape is the best way to go for this kind of bread.

I put the loaves in a 450F oven for 10 minutes, basted them with clarified butter and let them go another 20 minutes or so.

The result? An edible bread. Yea! First time ever.  However, the bread was not very sour tasting. I think the active dry yeast killed all of my wild yeast and the net result was a loaf that tasted and had the consistency of a white bread. I did get to see the 'oven spring' that Jacob and others have written about here. It was pretty exciting! (you know you lead a boring life when you are watching bread rise in the oven on saturday night)

Crust:


Crumb:



Full Size Images:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/4000780283_d8ca6b193f_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/4000788455_4b57c3332d_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3430/4000783981_f63787a4b5_b.jpg

Dave's still hanging in there. I think the key to making this work is I'll have to super feed him to get him going a bit stronger. The last super-feeding I gave him seemed to do wonders for his overall mood. Less hooch on the starter in the fridge and more of an airy texture to the starter. He's about 2 weeks old today.

[Zalbar]

I mixed this all in my KA mixer, and let the mixer continue to knead the dough (with the hook) until the ball was a bit shiny. I let the dough rise in the KA mixer bowl for approximately 6 hours. In this time the dough tripled in size so I was hopeful I was actually going to get some edible bread.

Only thing I can think of is that either you used too much water, didn't knead it enough, or you let it rise too long. 6 hours unrefrigerated seems like an awfully long time for me. Did you do any folding during the rise?

[Starkman]

Okay, I have a few questions.

First, what if I just end up with too much starter? Can I just cut some off and toss it without worrying about replacing it at that time?

Second, must I always replace with exactly what I took out? Let's say I took out 300 grams. Normally (if I understand this), I'd add back 150 grams each of flour and water. So, if I just decided to add back 100 grams (or less) each of flour and water—again, because maybe I just have too much starter—will I creating a disturbance in the Force and can expect the world to cave in on itself??

Finally, I take it that sourdough recipes will tell you how much starter to start with and then how much flour/water (and other ingredients) to go with from there, correct? (Oh, I could pull out my Cookwise book, but I'm just too lazy today!)

Thanks,

Starkman

[Homecook]

Okay, I have a few questions.

First, what if I just end up with too much starter? Can I just cut some off and toss it without worrying about replacing it at that time?

Second, must I always replace with exactly what I took out? Let's say I took out 300 grams. Normally (if I understand this), I'd add back 150 grams each of flour and water. So, if I just decided to add back 100 grams (or less) each of flour and water—again, because maybe I just have too much starter—will I creating a disturbance in the Force and can expect the world to cave in on itself??

Finally, I take it that sourdough recipes will tell you how much starter to start with and then how much flour/water (and other ingredients) to go with from there, correct? (Oh, I could pull out my Cookwise book, but I'm just too lazy today!)

Thanks,

Starkman

Starkman -- I'm certainly no expert here, I'm learning like everyone else. My starter is about 2-3 weeks old now.

I think the answer to both of your questions regarding reducing your starter is yes. As long as you keep it active enough to be useful. My understanding is that once you have an active starter it is pretty resilient.

The problem I seem to be having with my starter at the moment is that it's under active because its hungry. I have about 1000g of it. I will also need to reduce the starter to a more manageable size and by doing so I think it will allow me to overfeed it so that it becomes more active for future use.

As for the recipe/technique you may have missed that in Jacob's podcast/video cast #20 and #21. You should listen/watch if you haven't already done so.  The technique segment is something I'll have to listen to a few times I think before I get it.

[Starkman]

Okay, I have a few questions.

First, what if I just end up with too much starter? Can I just cut some off and toss it without worrying about replacing it at that time?

Second, must I always replace with exactly what I took out? Let's say I took out 300 grams. Normally (if I understand this), I'd add back 150 grams each of flour and water. So, if I just decided to add back 100 grams (or less) each of flour and water—again, because maybe I just have too much starter—will I creating a disturbance in the Force and can expect the world to cave in on itself??

Finally, I take it that sourdough recipes will tell you how much starter to start with and then how much flour/water (and other ingredients) to go with from there, correct? (Oh, I could pull out my Cookwise book, but I'm just too lazy today!)

Thanks,

Starkman

Starkman -- I'm certainly no expert here, I'm learning like everyone else. My starter is about 2-3 weeks old now.

I think the answer to both of your questions regarding reducing your starter is yes. As long as you keep it active enough to be useful. My understanding is that once you have an active starter it is pretty resilient.

The problem I seem to be having with my starter at the moment is that it's under active because its hungry. I have about 1000g of it. I will also need to reduce the starter to a more manageable size and by doing so I think it will allow me to overfeed it so that it becomes more active for future use.

As for the recipe/technique you may have missed that in Jacob's podcast/video cast #20 and #21. You should listen/watch if you haven't already done so.  The technique segment is something I'll have to listen to a few times I think before I get it.

Ah! I haven't gotten to the videos yet.

Thanks,

Starkman

[NathanPralle]

So after the demise of my first starter (unnamed, which @ChefJacob probably correctly deduced was my problem), I gave it another shot after taking some time off to think.

Starter #2:  "Laci"At first it was very slow going -- I got a nice sour smell from some pretty flat flour for a day, then after the first feeding it went dormant and didn't do hardly anything at all.   I put Laci down into my basement on a shelf near the furnace in the dark and left her alone for awhile, covered in a cheesecloth.   I'd check her a couple of times every day to make sure she was still bubbling and smelling decent.    Unlike the last time, she only had one day where her scent was "questionable", and that may have been because the apple peels were starting to get fuzzy so I removed the bundle.

I did a feeding about once every 3-4 days, pretty much whenever I felt like it or thought she was getting hungry, but it was hard to guess.  I always had a lot of hooch on the top (now that I know what it is).

On Saturday I went and did a 50/50 split and fed her, loading her up with 800/800 in the hopes of making something big happen.    The pictures attached show how she was Sunday morning (liquidy) and then Monday night (nice and bubbly!).     Today my wife reported that she got up and came into the kitchen to find Laci spewing out of her container and all over the cupboard.

Sounds like it might be a bread-making night tonight!  I think I'll try to get the dough formed up and in the fridge for a tomorrow-night baking.   She took forever to get to this point -- maybe because our house is relatively cold at 62F -- but I think she's finally taking hold.   I'm pretty darned excited about it.